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0:07      Kay Summers: From the School of International Service at Ģ����Ƶ in Washington, this is Big World, where we talk about something in the world that really matters. SIS as a school at any given time has around 3,000 students, including all of our undergraduate and graduate students. The staff and faculty are intensely focused on their educations and their success, and one of the measures of that success is whether or not our students find jobs in their field, jobs that challenge and excite them and allow them to begin making that positive difference in the world that all SIS students want to affect.

0:46      KS: So today we're talking about getting a job in international affairs. I'm Kay Summers and I'm joined by Sara Jones. Sara is director of the Office of Career Development for SIS, where she oversees career development support for SIS undergraduates, graduate students, and alumni, including events, advising, and employer relations, so she is the perfect person to have this conversation. Sara, thanks for joining me on Big World.

1:11      Sara Jones: Thanks so much for having me

1:12      KS: Sara, most entry-level jobs require or prefer at least some experience, including internships, which can be frustrating when you're trying to get a job right out of school. So to keep in mind these folks who are graduating without any work experience, what kinds of internships should someone be applying for if they want to work in international affairs?

1:35      SJ: So in terms of the types of internships we recommend, IR is a very wide field, as you well know, spanning security and intelligence to development, relief, conflict resolution, just to name a few areas. So the most relevant internships for one student's career path will vary widely with another's, but beyond just a student's interest at this point, a key thing to remember is that internships come in all shapes and sizes. So we have 18-year-old undergraduates who are interning and we have master's students in their thirties and forties working in internships. A great function of an internship is gaining professional experience, but especially true for those who are still deciding on their career interests. Internships give them more clarity on what they think they do and what they think they do not want to pursue long term.

2:29      SJ: So to give an example, let's say we have a sophomore who is still exploring their interests, which we completely support, students should still be exploring and trying different things on as an undergrad, but they think they may be interested in government. So one path, we will definitely tell them about the through the Department of State and other departments within the U.S government, and also point out that in the DMV there are many local and state government agencies, but that's certainly not the only way forward. We'll drill down to the areas of government they're the most interested in at this point and make other suggestions.

3:08      SJ: So we emphasize with all students, but especially those with less experience who may still be deciding on their interests, don't focus so much on the big name of the organization. Focus on the skills being built because wherever you intern, you want to develop transferable skills that you can take with you. The National Association of Colleges and Employers has a list of human skills that employers value most in recent graduates, things like communication, critical thinking, professionalism, teamwork, and more. So we really encourage folks to keep those front of mind, especially as you're still exploring the areas you want to land in.

3:49      KS: Sara, SIS is a school that's based in the US. We have a lot of international students who are coming from different countries. For our US-based students who have never lived anywhere other than the US, they may be seeking international experience. As we know, international experiences are a great asset for any student, but how important is getting international experience for someone looking to enter and work in the international affairs field and are foreign language skills a requirement?

4:21      SJ: Yeah, great question. So again, as you said, we are huge fans of international experience. This has always beneficial for personal growth and can speak to a person's cross-cultural capacity and flexibility, just to name two areas. In terms of it being a serious professional advantage or even necessity, it highly depends, again, on what area of international affairs the student is planning to go into. If students hope to work abroad, naturally international experience will be more important and specific regional experience in an area can be important too. For example, a internship or study abroad experience in Nairobi would be valuable if East Africa is where a student hopes to work.

5:03      SJ: Study abroad, of course, is a great way for students to gain international experience. As a point, like with internships, SIS students do very well with study abroad. About 90% of SIS students do some form of study abroad and there are also three abroad internships that the Ģ����Ƶ Study Abroad office runs, one to Brussels, one to Nairobi, and one to Madrid, with great opportunities to get that international professional experience.

5:34      SJ: In terms of languages, just like with international experience, they're always beneficial, but there are certain paths where advanced language skills are very important and others where they're not as much. So sample paths where they're going to be more important, if a student has a regional focus in a particular area, it makes sense that language would be very important. If they're focused on the Middle East, they are going to be far more competitive and really need to study Arabic. If a student is interested in the Department of State and Diplomacy, States publishes a regular list of 12 critical languages that are essential to America's engagement with the world and offers a for American college and university students to learn these languages over summer programs. To name a few Arabic, Mandarin, Hindi, Russian, some of the ones you'd expect, but these rotate, they keep it at about 12.

6:34      SJ: If a student is interested in working in defense and intelligence or working with multilaterals, these critical languages can again be valuable. The fund the intensive study of language and culture abroad by US graduate and undergraduate students. They have several language initiatives, the African Flagship Languages Initiative for the study of Swahili and four other African languages that weren't on that critical language list. They also have a Southeast Languages Initiative.

7:06      SJ: So this is just to give some examples here, but our advice to students as far as language goes is to take a language and run with it. Again, as the critical languages that the State Department publishes change based on world events, students can't go chasing these language skills. It's typically of little value to have say three languages at the intermediate level because that doesn't give a student the opportunity to use any of them effectively in a professional setting. But if they've already been learning Spanish for several years, they can invest in that to an advanced level and then Portuguese will likely be easier to learn later if that would be beneficial for the alumni to pursue.

7:49      KS: Sara, I feel like getting a job, getting started in work or moving into different positions, even with technology changes had been kind of the same for a really long time. Then 2020 happened and everything changed. The working world has certainly changed since the COVID-19 pandemic, and one of these changes has been virtual and hybrid interviews and jobs becoming a lot more common. Then there's some waxing and waning of are these jobs going to continue to be virtual? Should people try and advocate for that if that's what they want to do? All these types of questions that just never really came up before. So to sum it all up, how has getting a job changed in recent years and how can or should students adapt to those changes?

8:42      SJ: Yeah, thanks Kay, I love this question. So absolutely COVID has changed the way that we get a job, but I think what COVID acted as was a real accelerant. It moved the way the world was moving anyway in the job applying world. So first off, it's changed the way we interview. That's a pretty obvious case. It's very rare for things to be in-person in the early rounds. You've got more interviews, and especially you've got more one-way video interviews for screens where applicants are given questions and a certain amount of time to respond and record on a video system given back to the interviewer. In terms of preparing for those types of interviews, we would always recommend preparing with a live person, a career coach where possible, a friend, a parent, practicing your responses out loud because it's a much different experience than practicing them in your head. It helps work out a lot of bugs. But now with this larger video component, we also encourage people to record responses on video so you can actually watch it back and see adjustments you might like to make.

9:49      SJ: Another change in these massive changes you're referring to is applying for jobs is actually much easier than it used to be. Students and alumni are pushing their resumes out on LinkedIn, where they can literally apply to thousands of jobs pretty easily, but if they don't put a lot of effort to customize their applications, this shows. They become just another faceless applicant, they rarely hear back. Also, this is a great place to come back to what's always a good strategy, and that's tailoring your materials effectively. Our office is very happy to help with that. We also have samples on our website that shows a sample job description and a resume and cover letter tailored to it.

10:31      SJ: Then again, the key always good strategy, the other key in addition to tailoring, is networking. I know I'm emphasizing this hard, but we really find it's the most important piece, and especially right now, is connecting with our office during your job search and we will connect you with alums in the fields and organizations of interest for you. Jobs are getting a lot of applicants right now. There was a Wall Street Journal article this summer that spelled this out really well. For some jobs you can have hundreds even close to a thousand applicants. When the numbers get this big, it's very hard for hiring managers to look at all the resumes and having a referral, having any connection there makes an enormous difference. So recent statistics show that applicants with referrals had a 50% chance of advancing beyond the initial stage compared to 12% odds for external candidates. This is really how we're hearing of students and alumni primarily getting jobs, through connections with alumni, also through job fairs, which again provides that personal interaction.

11:42      KS: Sara Jones, it's time to take five. You, our esteemed guest, get to order and reorder the world to your liking and set people on the right path. This is definitely an episode tailored toward a how-to mindset, Sara, so what are your five favorite job boards to recommend?

12:01      SJ: The first one for students would definitely be Handshake. This is geared particularly to students, and so they have lots of opportunities across international affairs geared toward entry level, geared toward graduating students, as well as internships while you're a student, so that is a huge one. The next one in this field I would say is because we do have so much government interest. That is your central way into the federal government, so a huge one. The next one would be , many, many valuable nonprofit jobs there. We always recommend that one.

12:39      SJ: The next one is Devex.org. This is for international development jobs. It's also a media platform. This is subscription-based, but the Ģ����Ƶ library has a limited amount of Devex Pro subscriptions. You can find this on the job board section of our office's job searching and networking page, the direct link to that Ģ����Ƶ library subscription. Then lastly, I would say the . APSIA stands for Association of Professional Schools and International Affairs. These are specific jobs geared within international affairs. They are geared toward the graduate population, but some are entry level and also great for upper level undergraduates.

13:22      KS: Wonderful, thank you. Sara, you mentioned earlier international affairs is a broad field. There are lots of different disciplines you can work in, different types of positions. You can be a consultant, you can work in the field, you can do many different things with a degree in International Affairs, but it can also be very competitive. There are a lot of good people looking for jobs in this area who are really raring to go. So how can students prepare for the job search, stand out, and avoid those common mistakes?

14:02      SJ: So the biggest thing is to start early. So in terms of career exploration, we really recommend starting right away when you start your program. This doesn't mean, especially for a freshman, not saying you need to bang out a bunch of internships right away. What I'm saying is to meet with us in your first semester so we can discuss your interests and we can connect you with alumni doing those to explore those further. I'll also just put in a side note for any undergraduates listening to this, freshmen and sophomores also have the opportunity to schedule with the Central Career Center. So they can have career conversations with the team over there and then they're also welcome to come by our drop-in. So lots of great options for freshmen and sophomores.

14:49      SJ: Then we say, once you've decided on a direction you want to pursue, start your job search with thoughtful networking and looking at sample positions that you're interested in applying to about a year before you hope to have that position. Again, we have a broad network, we're very happy to help with this. You actually want to start earlier than that in areas like the intelligence community and some other areas of government with longer clearances. So this is again why we encourage freshmen, hey, if you think you might be interested in government, let's connect you with alumni working in these areas of interest now, so you can see if it's something you want to lean more into or if you're going to turn in other directions.

15:31      SJ: Also a year in advance, what we recommend is to look at the positions you're interested in and the skills that they're asking for. This is important when coursework alone won't build those skills. So we recommend students use that year to build capabilities where there might be holes in their skillsets for what positions they're looking for. Again, you get this by both reading positions, but also by talking to alumni of what helps me stand out and working to shore those up before you're actually at the application time and phase in the spring of graduation, usually, sometimes earlier, it depends on what you're applying for.

16:07      SJ: But when you're ready to apply, we encourage you to look at our website. We have lots of resources there. Meet with us about the best way to actually tailor your materials to the job resume and cover letter. This makes an enormous difference for getting an interview. It's much better to apply to fewer jobs and tailor them well than just to spray out hundreds of resumes. Another tip that we really emphasize is, in both your application materials and the interview, show your enthusiasm and your curiosity for the role. This is honestly important at all level, but especially at the entry level because they know you don't have years of experience. So they really want to know you want to be there and that can really make the difference. Show that you care enough about the organization and the role to have looked them up and to understand what they do and what you would be doing in this role. Ask good questions in the interview. Again, this can completely make the difference when employer must make a choice between what seems like two equally qualified applicants.

17:07      SJ: Some common mistakes that we see, a candidate doesn't tailor their materials, they don't network, again they're sending out hundreds of applications with identical resumes and wonder why they're not hearing back. Neglecting to send a follow-up thank you note, we have samples on our website. That again, when applicants are equally qualified, that can really make the difference. It shows attention to detail, it shows communication skills. It can make an enormous difference.

17:35      KS: Yeah, and speaking from personal experience as someone who's been in that hiring chair for a couple of decades, one of the questions that I always start an interview with is, what do you know about this organization and why do you want to work here? You know the person wants a job, they're sitting in front of you applying for a job, and you know they have some skills or they wouldn't be there, but what you want to know is that the person wants to work there in that role. Because that is what can set someone apart when people are equally skilled, is someone who's taken the time to learn a little bit more about the organization. I'm not talking about chapter and verse about every policy the organization has, but just a little bit of insight into what they do, why they do it, how good they are at it, different things they're good at. That can really go a huge way to making someone stand out.

18:28      KS: Sara, we know that our students are great and they come in and they are the kind of focused people who want to do well in their classes, and they're going to get those internships and they're going to stack up these different types of requirements. But I think one of the things that happens as a student, and I remember this from my own experience, is you think, okay, I do all these things and then at the end of it, this will all logically lead me to this place. But there is this moment where you have to start your job search, you have to actually begin it. That can be overwhelming, especially for the kinds of people who are used to excelling in things and having that make the next good thing happen. Sara, in your experience, what is your best advice for students who don't know where to start their job search or who are maybe feeling overwhelmed by the prospect of figuring out where to start their job search?

19:22      SJ: I may sound like a broken record here, but again, my best advice is to come see us. Come see us.

19:29      KS: Come see them.

19:30      SJ: Again, we not only have a wide network in this field through our office, but we see students all the time who are in the same position. I think a lot of students feel really alone in this. They think, oh, I'm the only one. I don't have the internships I want, or I have these internships, but my job applications just aren't moving, and so we're here to have those exact conversations. We meet with students all the time. We have drop-in advising five days a week, both virtual and in-person. If you can't make those times on the website, just email us, we can find something that works.

20:04      SJ: I think you're really right. I think with earlier generations it could seem like more of an equation. If you did this and this and this during your studies, then this is setting you up for a job. The job search is really something that you get to direct yourself. That can feel like a lot, but again, we are here for support with all of it, with connecting you with relevant people early so that you can get an accurate picture of what a path toward the role toward the field that you're interested in actually looks like. Because sometimes we have something in our head, but it's not accurate in today's world. So connecting with people, again in the shoes that you want to be in, and working with us on all of the prep along the way, I think we've seen this be an enormous help to folks.

21:00      SJ: We also share information about fellowships to consider that students may not know about. Again, if they aren't sure what areas of the field are of interest to them, we love having those conversations as well. I think that's sometimes overlooked, especially in a high achieving school like SIS, as you said, Kay, of it can sometimes feel like, oh, everybody else knows what they want to do, I'm the only one who doesn't. You're not the only one who doesn't, I can say because we talk with students all the time with these exploratory conversations, and we think these are really important and we want you to be able to explore early. We take a life design approach with this so you can look at three possible lives over the next five years and then really look at how to lean those. We also have hundreds of resources on our website, so if it's not feasible for you to come in to meet with us right away for whatever reason, feel free to start there.

21:53      SJ: The other thing that I would really recommend in addition to just having an early conversation, and getting connected is really the key thing, is taking advantage of events. These are for SIS and other Ģ����Ƶ students. Almost all of our events are open to the whole Ģ����Ƶ population. The exception is site visits, which are limited to about 20 students, and so those are SIS specific. Usually about 20 students, sometimes more. But during the school year, we have site visits to employers. Students can meet alumni working there and just get an immersive experience to try on that career, to ask questions right from the source. This is very, very helpful to folks. We have other events across the year, both virtual and in-person, with employers of strong interest inside the government like State, like the intelligence community, and also outside panels with sustainability employers, peace and human rights, and much more.

22:52      SJ: The other big thing I would say coming up to take advantage of is the . This is something that the Ģ����Ƶ Central Care Center puts on. It's September 18th this year, and this will be in-person, and people can find that by searching fairs in Handshake. So lots of events to take advantage of. Some of the sample employers we've visited during site visits, we were just at the Department of State in the spring. We were at World Resources Institute, we've been to Meridian International, lots of think tanks, Wilson Center, Brookings Institution, USAID. So really it goes on and on. We do many of these every year, so great way to try on employers and ask the questions that you want. But bottom line, come see us early, we can talk about your particular path and the best way to map forward for you.

23:47      KS: Sara Jones, thank you for joining Big World and talking about the always important topic of employment. It's been a treat to speak with you.

23:56      SJ: Thank you so much for having me.

23:57      KS: Big World is a production of the School of International Service at Ģ����Ƶ. Our podcast is available on our website, on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, wherever else you listen to podcasts. Our theme music is It was Just Cold by Andrew Codeman. We appreciate every listener out there and hope you've enjoyed the show and our commitment to approaching the world with a sense of curiosity and a desire to understand. So I want to let you know that after six years of regular monthly episodes, Big World is going on hiatus. It's time for us to figure out what's next for the podcast. Thank you and so long.